Comments on: Overlooking Democracy http://capturedperspective.com/2009/02/23/overlooking-democracy/ "The ultimate end is that this writing and conversation will provide a better foundation for each of us to engage with and act in the unique part of the world we occupy." Fri, 23 Jul 2010 00:27:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Peter Boumgarden http://capturedperspective.com/2009/02/23/overlooking-democracy/#comment-167 Peter Boumgarden Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:16:39 +0000 http://capturedperspective.com/?p=671#comment-167 Hey Dave I don't think you necessarily have to back away from the previous position (or previously implied position). What is democracy, or some version of rule by the people, is an appropriate form of governance from the majority of nations... even those without this system in place. I think that some version of people rule (not always in the model of american democracy) has some benefits. Like Brooks argument, it does allow for some constraint on the problems of a small group of leaders imparting their obviously simplified models onto a complex system. Regarding the process element you address latter in the point, I think you are right that it might take forms from the bottom and top... and perhaps a question is what role the UN is most effective at partaking in (oops... never end a sentence with a preposition... that is why I will add this section before the period). Hey Dave
I don’t think you necessarily have to back away from the previous position (or previously implied position). What is democracy, or some version of rule by the people, is an appropriate form of governance from the majority of nations… even those without this system in place. I think that some version of people rule (not always in the model of american democracy) has some benefits. Like Brooks argument, it does allow for some constraint on the problems of a small group of leaders imparting their obviously simplified models onto a complex system.

Regarding the process element you address latter in the point, I think you are right that it might take forms from the bottom and top… and perhaps a question is what role the UN is most effective at partaking in (oops… never end a sentence with a preposition… that is why I will add this section before the period).

]]> By: Dave Ellis http://capturedperspective.com/2009/02/23/overlooking-democracy/#comment-166 Dave Ellis Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:04:32 +0000 http://capturedperspective.com/?p=671#comment-166 Wow, I really had no idea how imperialist this post came across until your comments and Adam's... Something I didn't articulate above is that I think these organizations ought to focus on strengthening democratic processes in already "democratic" nations, not in supplanting regimes. This may or may not be a "top-down" system. We could support grassroots education efforts, local voter mobilization projects, etc. in order to build the fabric of civil society that is required for democracies to flourish. The question is, exactly as you put it, how do we help strengthen existing democracies in the long term through an "emergence from below." Thanks for your comments, look forward to discussing more. Wow, I really had no idea how imperialist this post came across until your comments and Adam’s…

Something I didn’t articulate above is that I think these organizations ought to focus on strengthening democratic processes in already “democratic” nations, not in supplanting regimes.

This may or may not be a “top-down” system. We could support grassroots education efforts, local voter mobilization projects, etc. in order to build the fabric of civil society that is required for democracies to flourish. The question is, exactly as you put it, how do we help strengthen existing democracies in the long term through an “emergence from below.”

Thanks for your comments, look forward to discussing more.

]]> By: Peter Boumgarden http://capturedperspective.com/2009/02/23/overlooking-democracy/#comment-165 Peter Boumgarden Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:44:51 +0000 http://capturedperspective.com/?p=671#comment-165 Hey Dave Interesting post... Adam's comments on the other site were good push-back as well. I guess i am trying to wrestle with the tension between this article and the David Brook's piece I sent you earlier today. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/24/opinion/24brooks.html). I think there is a tension between imposed goals and structures, and their more natural (yet slower and less controllable) emergence from below. I think the benefit of imposing democracy is that you are promoting a structure which hopefully allows more emergence from below even though, ironically, it requires top-down action to initiate. Anyway, still pondering over this stuff. pb Hey Dave
Interesting post… Adam’s comments on the other site were good push-back as well.

I guess i am trying to wrestle with the tension between this article and the David Brook’s piece I sent you earlier today. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/24/opinion/24brooks.html). I think there is a tension between imposed goals and structures, and their more natural (yet slower and less controllable) emergence from below. I think the benefit of imposing democracy is that you are promoting a structure which hopefully allows more emergence from below even though, ironically, it requires top-down action to initiate.

Anyway, still pondering over this stuff.
pb

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